Religion had nothing to do with it, Allah Akbar

I'm not so sure about that. I think generally people are better-educated, more knowledgeable, more informed, and perhaps as a consequence better thinkers, "considerers" and "deciders" than we once were -- as a percentage of the whole. "Better" though, doesn't mean we're all the way there yet, toward a wholly critically thinking populace. The expression goes, "A little education is a dangerous thing." You know, people cling to half-truths and innuendo, and run with them, going hog-wild with just a little knowledge drawing the wrong conclusions.

My theory is, the problem today is that all voices are the loudest voice, and all ears are big ears. There are no filters, and there aren't any barriers to access -- to audiences, or to the media itself (as a "broadcaster") so much these days. Blame the Internet or talk radio or the decline of newspapers or the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine if you want -- but those have upsides and downsides for liberals and conservatives (and I guess anybody else who might be "in-between", if there are any left).

Something that bothers me about this topic is the loose use of labels like "Muslim", "Christian", etc. -- add "Catholic", "Protestant", "Jew", etc. and I'll make my point. Who's a "true" Christian, or Muslim, or Jew, or...other, these days? I don't think anybody would say that a Catholic or Protestant (pick any) today is the same as any old-world Christian of 200, or 500, or 2000-plus years ago. Judaism has certainly split many ways also, as has Islam. I think we use the word "fundamentalist" -- like an odd synonym for "radical" -- as a sort of prefix (often before the word "whacko") to identify subgroups within these groups as troublemakers. The thing is, some of "the fundamentals" of these groups' beliefs are troublesome to many, and that's why they've been modified or dispensed with in the transmogrification -- and transportation -- of these groups and their beliefs as they've spread across the world. Sometimes though, it's in the reactionary direction, and then some of the more troublesome "fundamental" beliefs are over-accentuated, or even distorted. (Here in the US we lead the world in "fundamentalist" groups that break off and go it on their own when their new (old?) beliefs diverge as much from the mainstream.)

When so many people these days get their weekly, or daily dose of religion in stadiums (OK, "stadia") or other big arenas, on TV or the Internet, it's probably not so easy to put everybody into the same old neat categories. It's not so much what they call themselves (or what we call them), but what they do that should get our attention. It's just harder than ever now to figure out who we're supposed to be watching.
    

Edited by .Rex - November/17/09 at 4:04pm

Iran? Oliver North et al? I don't think they're going to get us with whatever they got out of that deal. To bad it didn't work -- or maybe it did...

I think the poster is implying we might eventually hang ourselves with our own rope.

    Orenthal: To your reply on the crusades. I remember my history quite well. There were 3 main organized crusades. Not including solo efforts from historic figures like Dracular. He also was trying to push back the muslims and defend territory, not just suck blood. The purpose of each was the same. To push the Muslims (Islamists) or what ever you want to call them back to the middle East where they came crawling out from & recapture Jerusalem. The cristians didn't just go out and say " Hey - lets put togeather an army and go slaughter some muslims." The purpose was to restore order to trade routes and defend long established states or kingdoms.
   I also believe a 4th crusade is coming and needed for the purpose of insuring wester survival. That includes you pinhead liberals who would sell the muslims the knifes they would use to behead you.
    

Edited by islandman - November/16/09 at 9:48pm

Originally posted by orenthal You guys sure do have fun branding me a liberal, "open minded" would be more to my liking. But without a label you guys have a hard time identifying the enemy I do love throwing a counterpoint out there, I just hate the sound of echos The love fest you have without me needs a cold shower As Alfalfa would say "mooney mooney mooney" For all the screaming socialism and communism you guys all vote and act in lockstep like the politburo and wish to "purge" from the party anyone who doesn't think or agree with you. For me the parallels are frightening Who's a commie now? That aught to be enough chum eh Pat?

You did good orenthal. However, I must mention that you sound just like the guys your complaining about, only with an opposite view point of course.
     
    

Edited by Patrick - November/15/09 at 5:49pm

I am sorry to say that even the liberals will be forced to see the truth in time, although I doubt that they will ever admitt it.

Originally posted by sand crab The thing that is frightening is that these terrorists, before the horror of 9/11, were active members of the community, involved in things like PTA. Weren't there a group in pilot training classes in Florida. I can't be totally sure. But, whatever, we could be passing them every day on the street.

Yes sand crab, you are correct.
    

Originally posted by orenthal And as Americans we should use American solutions to our problems that have worked well for over 200 years. There is no need to redo the justice system from the ground up for a particular class of criminal. Our justice system, flawed as it may be, is a beacon around the world.

Good point and it's the same as mine; let the military take care of military business and that includes military courts, which is by definition: American solutions.
     

And as Americans we should use American solutions to our problems that have worked well for over 200 years.
There is no need to redo the justice system from the ground up for a particular class of criminal.
Our justice system, flawed as it may be, is a beacon around the world.

Originally posted by Gregg      Sand Crab: I don't agree with about 99% of what Obama does or stands for. I think if he's allowed to accomplish half of his idea's it will take us decades to fix what he screws up. As for the war in Afghanistan, there is no easy answer. If we want to actually win it, we need lots more troops, and be prepared to stay for a long time. Then we need to define win. We won in Iraq, but look at that situation and that's much better than Afghanistan. The problem is our enemy is patient and will wait decades to achieve their goals. We will never be that patient. so I think for Obama, this is a tough situation. I think the best answer is what you said earlier--pray and pray and pray some more. I will say this, Bush was hated around the world--but he was feared. Obama is well liked, and we are the laughing stock of the world. Bush got no help from anyone else (except the U.K.) and Obama isn't getting any help. If that's the case, I would rather be feared than liked. Do you think Mother Russia goes around apologizing to her enemies? And Russia is feared. Gregg

I read your stuff all the time Gregg and my only way I can describe my reaction is the old Superman comics when he goes to Bizzaro world where everything is opposite.
What color is the sky in your world?
    

    Sand Crab: I don't agree with about 99% of what Obama does or stands for. I think if he's allowed to accomplish half of his idea's it will take us decades to fix what he screws up. As for the war in Afghanistan, there is no easy answer. If we want to actually win it, we need lots more troops, and be prepared to stay for a long time. Then we need to define win. We won in Iraq, but look at that situation and that's much better than Afghanistan. The problem is our enemy is patient and will wait decades to achieve their goals. We will never be that patient. so I think for Obama, this is a tough situation. I think the best answer is what you said earlier--pray and pray and pray some more.

I will say this, Bush was hated around the world--but he was feared. Obama is well liked, and we are the laughing stock of the world. Bush got no help from anyone else (except the U.K.) and Obama isn't getting any help. If that's the case, I would rather be feared than liked. Do you think Mother Russia goes around apologizing to her enemies? And Russia is feared.

Gregg

Well that much is true. It is our troops lives that are at stake. And that is the biggest way we differ from them: we care about our troops, they couldn't give a damn about even their own troops. Or their own wives or kids for that matter. Its not just that I think Obama cant solve this, I really dont know who can!    

    oh Crabby!!
It will come down to Obama, cause he's the president as much as you hate it.
   Maybe he should call himself the decider or has that been done before?
You should take some solace that many of those who advise him also advised GWB, and the most recent one to say lets just hold on a second here,ran military operations in Afghanistan, and thinks Karzai is a corrupt hoople.
I don't see any reason to throw troops lives at the situation until it's well thought out.   

Plucky and Gregg it was a help to read all of your postings. I feel more informed, but also more frightened that there really does not seem to be any easy end to all of this. And, even though this is not an Obama bashing post, I can't imagine that he could be the one to make any headway at all. I heard the other day that he rejected all suggestions regarding the war's end, and asked for new ideas. All this extremist activity is bad enough, but add to it all the really crazy people who are drawn to that sort of thing and the world is screwed. I don't want to be like some religious nut, but I tell you I do a lot more praying these days.

Do you guys have any suggestions about someone in the political or military arena today who maybe would be the best person to strategize the situation? Or will it really come down to Obama, or anyone from the US, trying to sit down and reason with terrorist nations?     

    The thing we in this country don't get is nothing about our way of life is acceptable to radical Islam. We think it's horrible they live in caves--they love it. They use technology only to help them achieve their goals. The Taliban plunged the Afghani people back into the stone age, and loved it. How do you "reason" with that. How do you reason with people who think women should be stoned at the command of their husbands. How do you reason with people who believe all homosexuals should be destroyed--when this culture embraces them? Where is the common ground. How do reason with people who execute people who traffic in pornography--when in this country it's almost encouraged? Democracy is a disease to them, where will the reason come from? To them, we are and our country are a morale cesspool, and were what's wrong with the planet. Good luck finding common ground to reason with that.

This is a war, it's a war in witch our enemy is patient and relentless. The only goal is our destruction, or our complete assimilation. The sooner our spoiled country and our liberal leaders realize this, the sooner we can protect ourselves.   

Gregg
    

Edited by Gregg - November/13/09 at 2:10pm